Car dealers renew their opposition to EV mandates

An EV mandate would make gasoline cars too expensive, say the dealers.

See full article...

 

[tmt]

"Magnates of a dying industry grasping at straws" News at 11.

 

[microwavetransmission]

At least we have ample time before global climate change takes effect to sit back, relax, and ponder how on earth we could ever reduce emissions.

 

[uncaughtexception]

Did they voice their concern that they'll no longer be able to service the thousands of moving parts required for an ICE engine? Oil changes, transmissions, coolant, more brake jobs due to no regen braking, etc? Think of the profits!

I've had a BEV for 8 years at this point and I really enjoy not having to deal with oil changes and all the BS associated with converting explosions into movement. Before that I've had alternators blow up multiple times, failed clutches, failed syncro in the transmission, failed coolant pump impeller, engine codes pointing to various sensors to manage the exhaust, clogged EGR valves, failed lead/acid batteries, cracked vacuum hoses, sticky throttle cable (Exciting!). One car had a design fault in the air manifold which produced a loud hooting sound a few seconds before the engine shut off at speed. The one Ford I had died an apt death (Found On Road, Dead) when some internal gubbins got chewed up on the highway after which it would not turn over at all. Holy crap it's traumatizing just to type it out.

 

[cyberfunk]

I mean there’s a semi legitimate concern in terms of inflation.. but electric vehicles are very expensive . The unknown is how much they can come down if such a mandate is enforced . But yes the greedy dealers can screw off.

When’s the last time most people cried for a car dealer ? I have little sympathy for their whining .

 

[JanvanGaalen]

Is it me, or is there every day another negative article about EVs? Gosh, they must really become quite popular then, with so much FUD flying around...

 

[Sajuuk]

Sure, we could have saved the planet, but consumer surveys showed mixed results.

 

[Eurynom0s]

Given all the bullshit you hear about dealers trying everything they can to steer people away from EVs to ICE pickup trucks and SUVs even when the customer came in knowing exactly which EV they want, I wouldn't exactly trust anything they have to say about consumer sentiment on electric cars.

 

[TrailerParkBob]

"... the result will create excessive demand driving up prices for customers," the group wrote in a statement."

Truly, their concern for their customers is heartwarming. /s

 

[scortiusthecharioteer]

isn't that the point?

 

[scortiusthecharioteer]

"... the result will create excessive demand driving up prices for customers," the group wrote in a statement."

Truly, their concern for their customers is heartwarming. /s

Will they sell you GAP insurance and undercoating on that concern?

 

[Castellum Excors]

Dealerships would prefer you buy ICE because there's a lot more maintenance profits to be made, at least at the present. EVs are expensive as all hell versus ICE. And we're still nowhere near ubiquitous charging 'standards' and having to do the "where can I charge" tango, it's not surprising that EVs have a long uphill climb against them.

That being said, I'd be stoked as hell to own a non-Tesla one, complete with home solar charging, my own batteries, etc.,. But them dolla' dolla' bills, ya'll.

 

[Tam-Lin]

You know, if something isn't selling, that generally means they're priced too high. Maybe instead of trying to sell a $100,000 electrical pickup truck, they should be selling a $20,000 hatchback?

I find it hard to have much sympathy for monopolists; much as I dislike Tesla, avoiding dealerships is something they got right.

 

[passivesmoking]

An EV mandate would make gasoline cars too expensive, say the dealers.​

Yes, and?

Time for that 19th century technology to be put to bed.

 

[AHvivere]

Oh dealers can fuck right off, they are already fleecing us.

I've been in the market for a new truck for a few years, the exact same model over 7 years has gone from $55k to $108k.

 

[gighalen]

Let manufacturers sell EVs directly to consumers and the dealerships will die out over time with the ICEs. Everybody wins.

 

[caw]

"A lot of the dealers' concerns are around a lack of knowledge about EVs among their customers." I can understand that because the dealers are talking to their salespeople who know less than nothing about the cars that are on the lot today. IDK if its my area or what but around here i've been told things like "We don't sell any cars with an I4 engine" while standing next to 20 cars with said engine.
If the dealer would hire salespeople who could actually read the brochures maybe those people could in turn educate the customers.

 

[SFC]

These same dealers will be BEGGING the whitehouse to increase tarriff's on Chinese EVs in a year, just wait. There's "no demand for EVs" really means: "The demand for EVs we mark up 50% is waning quickly, we might have to make lower margin going forward, please protect our antiquated model".

 

[Lil' ol' me]

Aren’t articles constantly telling us how Ford and European manufacturers are scared by the cheap Chinese EVs and so now they’ll be coming out with cheap EVs pronto?

This is nothing but buggy whip manufacturers decrying the decreasing proportion of Americans owning horses

 

[clrcrx]

A lot of the dealers' concerns are around a lack of knowledge about EVs among their customers employees.

FTFY.

 

[Statistical]

driving up prices for customers

Well to be fair, auto dealerships are the experts at driving up prices for consumers.

 

[demonbug]

In defense of those car buyers, a place that sells cars, including electric ones, would surely seem like the obvious place to ask those questions—again, at least to this writer.

Yeah; I don't know about others' experience, but it has never been the case that the salesmen at a car dealership knew more about the car I was looking at than I did. You'd think think given the cost of the item they are selling there would be some level of professionalism and knowledge, but nope - it's like they actively avoid learning anything about the various models to free themselves from any potential constraints in trying to sell them.

So, yeah - you'd think the car dealer would be the obvious place to go for information on the cars they sell, but they've made it abundantly clear that they have absolutely no interest in selling EVs until/unless every EV sold requires a lifetime dealer subscription.

 

[ZippyPeanut]

"An EV mandate would make gasoline cars too expensive, say dealers."

They're already too fucking expensive!

"But there is not enough customer demand for electrified vehicles to buy those cars, the dealers say."

Well, if the prices wasn't so fucking high, then maybe there would be more demand.

"The open letter complains that customers are ignorant about where to charge and how long that takes, how long batteries last and how expensive they are, and range loss in winter. In defense of those car buyers, a place that sells cars, including electric ones, would surely seem like the obvious place to ask those questions...."

Yeah, I trust car salespeople. They're at the very top of my list of trustworthy, reliable information.

 

[zim2411]

I've leased two Hyundai EVs -- one from a dealer on this list in 2021, and one earlier this year from a dealer that I specifically picked because they were not on the first iteration of this list. (And have not been added since.)

Unsurprisingly the first dealer was your typical miserable experience that took probably 6+ hours... and the second dealer I was in and out in under 90 minutes, and that included a test drive. That quick turn around combined with them not going on the record as anti-EV left a positive impression.

 

[MTSkibum]

"This is a de facto mandate, as dealerships will be allocated fewer internal combustion engine and hybrid vehicles, and due to the lack of BEV sales, the result will create excessive demand driving up prices for customers," the group wrote in a statement.

I think that is the feature and not a bug.

Plug in hybrids need to become the standard for ICE vehicles.

 

[Tharg]

"... the result will create excessive demand driving up prices for customers," the group wrote in a statement."

Truly, their concern for their customers is heartwarming. /s

Prices will only be driven up because of the dealers greed, i.e. they’ll refuse to sell at list but instead chuck a hefty margin on top. Think that has been seen before with some popular EV’s

in other words if they make say $100k profit selling 10 cars now they’ll want the same profit from selling the 6 cars that the manufacturers are able to supply them when the BEV mandate kicks in.

 

[slugabed]

It's not that they're having trouble selling EVs, it's that they're having trouble selling them at prices that support their current profitability targets. When I see certain Jeep Wranglers stickering for close to $100k, I know we've entered crazytown.

EDIT: clicked too soon

 

[mmiller7]

"worries about a lack of demand for electric vehicles"

...well if you don't have any to show/demonstrate, that would probably reduce demand. While I was waiting to find out about repairs for my car that was hit recently I was looking a bit at cars, I was quite curious to see a Hyundai Ioniq 5 but apparently they are only available to order at the dealers in my area. Which who would order a car without seeing or test driving one?! They had a single Ioniq 6 in the showroom but it of course had no power (so can't see what the UI is like) and obviously can't test drive the one inside the showroom building.

And then Ford seemed to have forgotten about their Mustang Mach-E when I visited them, instead telling me about their F-150 when I asked about hatchbacks or crossovers...until I finally pressed if they had any Mach-E units on the lot.

I'm still not sure about some of the other issues (some of which are slowly getting better), but certainly if people can't see the cars when they want to is going to keep sales low.

 

[FreeRangeOrganicSoyLatteCappuccino]

As much as they're probably more concerned about the smaller profit margins for EV's than anything else, the fact is, they're right.

When these mandates were drafted the EV industry was projecting grossly unrealistic expectations of uptake. I say unrealistic because they assume that if given no choice, people would buy a new EV instead of a used ICE.

That's not what's happening. And because of that, the cost of new AND used cars have gone beyond the range of affordability for the average American.

So, that's one way to get 50% of the vehicles off the road, I guess...

The dealerships are probably right, the price of ICE vehicles will go up in these states (and in neighboring states). But what I suspect will happen subsequently is that in the efforts to meet the mandates, dealerships will discount the EV to get them off their lots (so they can get another allotment of ICEs).

Raising ICE prices and (potentially) lowering EV prices sounds like the laws working as intended.

 

[lex_lurker]

 

[graylshaped]

"Magnates of a dying industry grasping at straws" News at 11.

Their other choice would be to do what Tesla did--and I'll state for the record this is going against my inclinations and saying something positive about a Musk-led company: identify the barriers to adoption of electric vehicles and work to address those barriers. Availability of a charging infrastructure? Addressed. Cost? Addressed with some models. Performance? Addressed. Resistance by existing dealers (as shown in this story)? Addressed.

If the auto industry, of which the dealers are a key part, took a step back and realized they are in the personal transportation business, not in the fossil fuel enabling business, their "problem" would disappear.

 

[BigDXLT]

A lot of the dealers' concerns are around a lack of knowledge about EVs among their customers. (...) In defense of those car buyers, a place that sells cars, including electric ones, would surely seem like the obvious place to ask those questions—again, at least to this writer.

You would think, but this just goes to show how fucking stupid car salesmen are. About the only details these assholes can tell you is what color it is.

Don't get me wrong, the Tesla/Rivian/etc experience is not something I'm a fan of anymore either - this summer I went over for a buddies delivery of his "shiny" "new" vehicle that he had to reject due to obvious defects and he's had the run around since then. (I realize some people can go on-site for pickup but that's still a pain in the ass when you live a thousand miles away.)

I've come to the conclusion that I want Costco but cars. I want to walk in like Ron Swanson and say "I know more than you" to the first person that tries to help, go pick out the car I like, take it to the till, pay for it and drive away. I don't want to sit in a fucking office while some knuckle head runs over to grab coffee with his manager and make me fidget and wait. And I also don't want whatever fucking car the company found in their lot dropped off at my house.

Why is all of this so hard?

 

[42Kodiak42]

If they have so much trouble selling EVs, maybe they should get out of the industry before they go bankrupt.

 

[Jackattak]

Simple solution:

Get rid of the dealerships.

 

[ThatEffer]

At least we have ample time before global climate change takes effect to sit back, relax, and ponder how on earth we could ever reduce emissions.

Maybe if we get some more power plants up, we could have AI belch out some solutions that seem pretty intelligent if you don't read them too closely.

 

[panton41]

Perhaps the dealers are against EV's because their customers are against them. Most of the EV evangelists have theirs. The common person that just wants a car they can rely on to get them there isn't interested in EV's at this point.

I want an EV and can't afford one. Maybe if they stopped making electric monster trucks and luxury vehicles and made an affordable compact hatchback they'd sell better.

 

[Statistical]

Why is all of this so hard?

It is a feature not a bug. It is designed to give you the worst possible deal you will still accept a vehicle at. As such it is intentionally frustrating and long experience. More than one determined car buyer after 6 hours of the bullshit just gets worn down and says "Fuck it. I need the car." and signs. KaChing.

I sold cars for one summer between getting out of the Army and starting college. None of it is accidental. Just one example we take the keys on a trade in hand it to a runner who drives it over the to used car section to get an appraisal. Takes about 5 minutes. Then park the vehicle out of sight, they return the key and appraisal to the salesman. When customer keeps asking about it pretend to call over and say they are busy. Sales office is already writing up a deal and the salesman is pretending they don't have an appraisal yet. You now have a captive audience.

Another example is lock customer in on specific monthly payments that are more than the purchase price and interest so when they go into the finance office they can offer them a extended warranty for only $20 a month which is a nice deal. In fact it is $60 a month because the payments already exceed the cost of the vehicle. The quoted payments went up only $20 but were already inflated $40 (called packing the price). Sales persons get a cut of that and the margins on that junk are usually 50%+. Another example is if someone had bad credit you run it and check with finance office and they find a bank which can give them a loan at 7.2% so you say "good news" we can get you a loan at 8.5%. Consumers prior loan was worse than that so they think it is a good deal. If they accept the bank pays a cash amount based on the difference to the dealerships (called selling points) at closing. Bank gets higher rate, dealership can sell car at cost and walk away with thousands, customer gets fleeced anyways.

That is just the tip of the iceberg the list goes on and on. All of it is intentional. All of it. From the moment you walk onto the lot to the moment you drive away. Every aspect is tailored to find the absolute maximum amount of profit they can fleece you for and sell you a vehicle at that price and not a penny less. For some the profit is small for some a lot, for some obscene but the whole process is to determine just how much you can be fleeced for because it varies by customer.

 

[fizzlefist]

I’d happily consider upgrading my Maverick hybrid to PHEV version. Ford still doesn’t make one. Oh well.