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RobDickinson

Ars Tribunus Angusticlavius
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Pretty scathing Model 3 teardown by an auto engineering firm: https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2018/02/tesl ... n-the-90s/

I've been debating just buying the Model S for a while. I really want an EV and need a car this summer, and I pretty much hate everything else on the market (aesthetically speaking). I don't understand why the Leaf, i3, Bolt, etc. are all so fucking ugly--and with ho hum drag coefficients to boot, so battery range at the expense of sex appeal can't be the reasoning.

They had a pull cord system for the s and x I think but that was deemed too open to abuse...
 

RobDickinson

Ars Tribunus Angusticlavius
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Yet Tesla has a mile long list of reservations showing that a lot people want a true EV (not PHEV) that's not ugly. If people could buy an Audi A4 EV or BMW 3 Series EV instead of the i3 I don't think Tesla would be sitting on that mountain of deposits.

yes they would, because only Tesla is headed by St. Elon.

it's amazing how you people strut around and gloat about Tesla like you personally made it all happen.

what the fuck? if people want to buy an ev with a decent range and price that actually looks like a normal car the choice is tesla.

Because bmw et al have been sleeping at the wheel. This isnt a kissing elons ass moment, its just a fact. they are desperate to catch up and spending tens of billions to do so.
 

RobDickinson

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https://electrek.co/2018/02/07/tesla-ts ... -earnings/

"After market close today, Tesla released its financial results and shareholders letter for the fourth quarter 2017. Wall Street was expecting record revenue of about $3.2 billion for the quarter and a loss of about $3.19 per share due to large capital expenditure caused by the slow start of Model 3 production.

The company delivered higher on revenue of ~$3.3 billion and slightly lower than expected loss of $3.04 per share (non-GAAP) )($4.01 per share GAAP).

It compares to revenue of ~$2.9 billion and a loss of $3.70 per share (GAAP) during the prior quarter (Q3 2017).

The shareholder letter has been embedded in full below.

Tesla reiterates that it plans to begin “generating positive quarterly operating income on a sustained basis at some point in 2018.”

The market is so far reacting positively to the results – TSLA is up 2% in after hours trading at the time of writing."


Model 3 production up to 2500 per week by next month
 

RobDickinson

Ars Tribunus Angusticlavius
8,188
VAG are 'investing $84bn' in Ev, including plant and battery. It'll take time though... and how much is press talk and how much happens..

They are talking about a new plant coming on line in 2020 but producing 1500 a day, sounds like a lot , 1/2 million, until you e they make over 10 million a year so only 5% ...

The ID range do look funky though.
 

RobDickinson

Ars Tribunus Angusticlavius
8,188
Interesting model 3 info..

"Wiring:
"Mostly CAN with a touch of Ethernet (including BroadR-Reach single pair)."

Wiring reduced by having 3 body controllers instead of 1

*No fuses* in Model 3. All solid state virtual fuses. You don't actualy blow anything, you just trigger a software shutoff of the power until you reset the "fuse".

Display:
"Connected by a 2 twisted pair system called FPD link III. There is a 4-pin Fakra HSD connector on the ICE (computer) module behind the glovebox area that can be easily accessed"

Suspension:
Top suspension arm FRP, curiously enough.
Massive front stabilizer

MCU/ECU (computers, incl. autopilot):
Liquid cooled by the main glycol loop

Seat heaters:
"Rear seats do indeed have heaters and they are connected. Just no way in the GUI as yet to enable them."

Drive unit:
"The drive unit contains the Inverter, Switched-Reluctance motor, a gear-reduction, and a differential to split the torque between the 2 wheels."

"The RWD has a higher capacity inverter than the AWD. (800A vs 500A) I don't know if there will be a "P" version yet, but maybe that one would retain the 800A in the rear and add a 500A in front."

Front motor:

There's a giant hollow already just waiting for it. "Cavernous space. You could put a small child in here." Note for if you need a smuggling compartment... ;)

Pack:
" I can tell you the voltage ranges haven't changed too much. BMS considers 100% SoC at 4.2v per cell but the bottom changed slightly; it's now 2.85v/cell for 0% SoC, whereas on S/X it was 2.5v/cell. Note that Tesla advises owners not to charge above 90% daily unless really needed, so that puts the top at around 4.1v/cell. There is also a bottom reserve of 3.5kWh that you can't touch."

4426 2170s, 96S46P arrangement, 4x modules

76kWh actual, 74kWh nominal. Possibly only 72.5 kWh usable due to the 3.5kWh "bottom reserve".

Max charge 192A**, max discharge 1200A (ED: this must be AC charging, as that works out to too low for DC (47-78kW). Max discharge equates to 294-482kW / 392-646 max theoretical HP from the pack)
Min bus voltage 245V, max bus voltage 402V
Max regen 46,9kW, max discharge 370kW

Cooling:
Mounted on sizeable rubber gaskets and with a lot of acoustic foam, to keep it quiet.

Weights added to the cooling fan to ensure that it's properly balanced.

12V battery:
45 Ah. Not sealed.

Heat exchanger:
"It's a plate stack type on top of the drive unit. Looks similar to the one I showed in the 1st video where the glycol is chilled by the A/C refrigerant. "

"Yes, and not only that, but if it is super cold and they actually need to add heat (the motor/inverter is super efficient, so not much waste available), they purposely run the inverter in an inefficient mode to generate excessive waste heat to heat the pack. S/X had a s***ty electric battery heater in the glycol loop and these seem to be very unreliable. So on 3 they basically did it with software!"

Build quality and engineering:
"I've taken apart hundreds of cars so far, and I find the 3 to be well put together and a lot of thoughtful engineering throughout. Particularly impressed by the high levels of integration as compared to S/X. Also going to a electric pump and filter on the DU means they want it to last a long time. Really, the only maintenance most owners will need to perform is adding windshield washer fluid and replacing tires. Maybe a 12v battery every 5 years. Brake pads should do 100k unless you do a lot of aggressive stops."

"I think you must be referring to Sandy Munro. He had a lot to say about the fit/finish and went on and on about how the first responders can't get to the cut loop. First off, none of the fit/finish issues exist on recent the cars I've investigated, and secondly, Sandy's focus on the cut loop is silly. In any accident that would need first responders to cut into the car, the HV system has already been totally disabled by the RCM (Airbag Computer). Anything that matters seems to be really good. I welcome more objective analysis though!"

General safety:
"The RCM (Airbag ECU) blows the HV pyrotechnic disconnect in the HV pack as soon as there is an accident. Easy to safe the HV system by unplugging one low-voltage connector."

"The HV system is totally isolated from the chassis, and if the BMS detects that the isolation has been compromised, (due to a short from chassis to any part of the HV system) it will open the contactors."

"The fire vents relieve any pressure inside the hermetic pack enclosure, and if there are any hot gases, the deflectors redirect them to a safe place. There is a cabin filter, but it's inside, so a post filter, not a pre-filter like the S/X have."

"There is a lot of redundancy in critical systems. I've seen it in the BMS, Brakes, Power steering Rack, CAN buses, and Power distribution (no fuses). I haven't had the drive unit apart yet, but I expect it to have some redundancy, or at least built with fault tolerance in mind."

Power steering = 2 separate controllers; one can fail and you still have power steering.

Crash energy absorption structure is unboltable. If the car is in a crash, you can remove it and install a new one.

Automatic water vent if the pack somehow gets flooded.

From another user, about Ingineerix who took the car apart, in comparison to a person who posted a different teardown:
"I don't know what qualified that person to assess the quality of engineering, but I know Ingineerix personally and have never met anyone with a higher level of engineering skill and knowledge.""
 

RobDickinson

Ars Tribunus Angusticlavius
8,188
So if the manufacturers scale up to produce tens of millions of battery packs a year, what happens to the old packs in 5-10 years?

They can't go in a landfill right? And very little of it is recyclable?

Well in theory once they are too reduced overall (rather than occasional dead cells that can be replaced) they can be re purposed into powerwall applications but in general the vehicle packs are lasting far longer than anyone expected, this has caused issues for Powervault (renault) etc.
 

RobDickinson

Ars Tribunus Angusticlavius
8,188

RobDickinson

Ars Tribunus Angusticlavius
8,188
I'm on some serious motoring forums and there is a lot of angst and anger directed to EVs , I see this is purely because they are becoming far more relevant now.

Most of these people drive diesel audis for commuting etc... :/

They seem to thing they do 1000 mile trips every day and batteries are disposable..

Or unless the can go 500 miles, recharge in 5 min, cost tuppence etc..

Well sir times r changing and that will be happening.. soon....
 

RobDickinson

Ars Tribunus Angusticlavius
8,188
I would like a small low range electric car, I can charge at home no problem, the vehicle would only get used every so often for 20-30 miles journeys mainly to local nature reserves every so often.

My commute is by bicycle but I cannot lug my camera gear on a bike easily especially in the winter.

I can't see any reasonable options over buying a second hand small petrol car.

There's still no bangernomics evs a used leaf would be the cheapest option I think?
 
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